Steve Irwin is Dead

[Egaladeist]

I used to enjoy his show too...but...he should have known better...he must have been aware that MJ had been recently slaughtered for his stunt and he swore the kid was always safe and had a good grip on him...

then he goes and pulls a similar stunt with the exact same excuse...' the kid was never in any danger '...

regardless of the danger, or lack of it, any time you place a child in a situation where, as Shipp said, a potential for disaster you're going to pee-off a lot of people.

A buddy of mine used to breed Dobermans back when they were extremely popular guard dogs ( 70's ), and he used to swear by their harmlessness in his enviroment...but...

he was never stupid enough to put his kids in the pens. sometimes dogs turn for no reason...look at all the issues with pit bulls attacking their owners now.

The fact is...shit happens!...and it usually happens when you least expect it.

Safe or not safe it was a stupid and very unnecessary stunt...if he wanted to prove how harmless his crocs were he should have laid down beside one and left his kid at home.

[THE Doctor]

believe that steve and the kid were 99.9% safe, there is always that 0.1% of randomness that is in ANY situation.

This is very true..

My point first.. it is the same danger as taking your child for a walk down the road... and crossing the street..(check out Sophie Dolizeo(SP)). But supposedly smarter people deliberatly place their childeren in far more serious danger daily.. And I am not talking the partents who introduce their childeren to drugs.. But those that transport their childeren without any or correct safty restraints.. the "Loving mothers" that insist on sitting newborn bubs on their lap when driving around (in passenger seat)..instead of using the saftey capsuls.. and the list goes on.

My second point: I refer back to my original comment.. I accept.. that the risk of just having the child in the eclosure is there and is high..
BUT Had the images of the incident were from a camera with a standard lens and a differnt angle, it would not have looked as dramatic.. and would peoples reaction been as negitive? The point the depth perception distortion caused by TELEPHOTO LENS... Peoples perception of the event will be coloured by the image distortion..

same crap percxeption as the Poowoomba debate...

Steve Irwin .. as I said was an OUT THERE person (I say Idiot), his character was built by being introduced to the risks at an early age.. I respect his attitude with his childeren.. he wasnt going to raise a pair of Wuses.. what they do in the future ? certainly wont wont be worried about problems, they will face them and challeng them..
If people worried about the 1% danger all the time they will exist not LIVE..
Watching a bit of TV ATM.. it is Steve Irwin on all main networks.. Australia Zoo's entrence is covered in rememberences..
Steve changed his ways after that incident, and forgave those that bagged him.. I think it is time for those who condemed him for that aspect of his life, to do the same..

My anger in this ..is not the points of view.. but more it is the Double Standards.. his death has a reacthing in Aus almost as big, if not bigger, as the death of The Princess Dianna...

[Egaladeist]

I agree Undies...there is danger no matter where you are...we could be walking to school one day and some drunk decides to play tag with us in his car...

and maybe the media hyped it up for ratings because they knew what a ratings booster it was when MJ held his kid over a balcony...

but...all the same...it was still a stupid thing to do.

[Harry]

I used to be terrified of spiders until I seen his program!

It's unlucky for him and his family - he tried to promote animal welfare and turned a smal wildlife park in to a national zoo.......not many people could do that. He never done any harm to anyone, just looked after animals was all...he didn't deserve to die thats for sure.

Hope his family are ok.

[Panama Red]

The Dingo's ate my baby....waaaa....I thought the guy had major balls, I cringe around spiders, doing what he did with his kid is no biggie, there are more adults who refuse to put life jackets on their kids in the great lakes who risk their childrens lives fricking daily...

If it was me and my kid, then yeah accuse me of being stupid, but I am sure he was certainly aware of the risks...wacko jacko didn't so don't compare the two, as they are miles apart when it comes to responsibility...

His legacy for conservation will live on, he brought a lot of attention to endangered species and the constant struggle against poachers, so my hat is off to him, it was a freak accident, and as they say cat's have nine lives and this cat used them all up...

Edit: When I was a kid we used to train Alsatians (German Shepards) in England when my dad would sail, and I disagree with you on this Eg, dogs do not for no reason attack a person, dog's will, if abused or trained to attack. Dogs are easy to train, and if done properly are excellant around children, but as I have seen with most of today's pet owners it's about "status" and not proper dog handling, so if the dog is not properly handled and a child sticks it's mitt into the dog's bowl of alpo, it's going to get snapped at...

[Egaladeist]

I don't mean to pee all over a dead man's grave but...

I was just using MJ as an example...it could have been joe-blow down the street...but he wouldn't have gotten the air-play MJ did...

and it was stupid, regardless of how aware he was of the risks...accidents happen...what if the croc swung and he slipped on some shit? Shit happens. His own death was an accident.

like I said...I liked his show, he was apparently a great educator and conservationalist...

but if David Suzuki decided to climb a 300 foot Redwood tree with a two year old kid on his back or under his arm...or Jacques Cousteau decided to take a 2 year old kid on a swim with sharks or sting rays ...

yes...i call that stupid

I'm sure you could say if they did that they would be aware of the risks too...but of course, David Suzuki and Jacques Cousteau wouldn't even comtemplate a stunt like that anyways

his own death is a perfect example of what can happen by accident...a freak of events...an unexpected turn...it happens!

I disagree with you on this Eg, dogs do not for no reason attack a person, dog's will, if abused or trained to attack. Dogs are easy to train, and if done properly are excellant around children, but as I have seen with most of today's pet owners it's about "status" and not proper dog handling, so if the dog is not properly handled and a child sticks it's mitt into the dog's bowl of alpo, it's going to get snapped at...

I used to work for the Humane Society...and, yes, nothing happens without a reason...but dogs will for apparently no reason ( a loud shrill, a bug, some irritation that is not readily apparent to us, etc ) strike...could be the dog just didn't want to be handled that moment...recognising this fact about their personality...it would be stupid to allow a kid in the pen with even very well trained guard dogs

Shit happens!

[Panama Red]

The problem with this is it was "sensationalised", how many dad's out there teach their son's how to rodeo, or parachute, as long as they know the risks and the safety involved are they any less stupid?

How many times did you drive in the back seat of your Dad's car without the use of seat belts or lay in the back of a station wagon...stupid? with hindsight being 20-20 you betcha...


Your right shit happens, but for some people it's more of having common sense, some are born with it and some arn't it's inherent, the countless times he was around crocs, "he" felt what he was doing was okay, you and me can call him stupid all we want, it was his decision, and yet who are we to call someone else stupid?


Dog's if trained properly will not attack a child when it is reaching for it's food, I would be willing to bet, that most dogs the SPCA pick up are not trained in any way shape or form, and I am not talking roll over or play dead trained, I am talking total handling, so yeah I sure as shit wouldn't let a child walk into one of those pens, but I would allow a child to walk among dog's I have trained.These so called Pitt Bull owners are the ones who should be trained, it's them as abusive owners that give this breed a bad name....there is no "bad breed" of dog, and I have heard of all the stories about Doberman's, and thay are no more dangerous then chihauhua's on steroids. It's all about training.

[Egaladeist]

But...I'm not calling anyone stupid...I assert what he DID was stupid

Smart people do stupid things too...there is a big difference between saying ' boy, that was stupid! ' and saying ' he is stupid '

and it was stupid...

if David Suzuki decided to climb a 300 foot Redwood tree with a two year old kid on his back or under his arm...or Jacques Cousteau decided to take a 2 year old kid on a swim with sharks or sting rays

yes...i call that stupid

he died as a result of a accident...accidents happen...no matter how confident he was going into that water...no matter how sure of himself and what he was doing...he's still dead...

and...no matter how confident he was going into that croc pen...no matter how sure of himself and what he was doing...accidents happen...

he's very fortunate that an ' accident ' , an ' unforseeable event ' didn't happen on that day he had his kid in the croc pen

[J_K9]

Apparently, this is only the third reported death by a sting ray in Australia How unfortunate. I'm really going to miss this guy... And this video had me on the verge of teers (heck, I haven't cried in years): http://youtube.com/watch?v=LlxJ-UBaTaU

God Bless His Soul

[Panama Red]

But...I'm not calling anyone stupid...I assert what he DID was stupid

Smart people do stupid things too...there is a big difference between saying ' boy, that was stupid! ' and saying ' he is stupid '

and it was stupid...

if David Suzuki decided to climb a 300 foot Redwood tree with a two year old kid on his back or under his arm...or Jacques Cousteau decided to take a 2 year old kid on a swim with sharks or sting rays

yes...i call that stupid

he died as a result of a accident...accidents happen...no matter how confident he was going into that water...no matter how sure of himself and what he was doing...he's still dead...

and...no matter how confident he was going into that croc pen...no matter how sure of himself and what he was doing...accidents happen...

he's very fortunate that an ' accident ' , an ' unforseeable event ' didn't happen on that day he had his kid in the croc pen

Touche (A la MAC...LOL... )

[THE Doctor]

You know eg..
You are right.. and I wont deny that I thought he was an idiot..
I certainly dont agree with a lot of things he did.. BUT when the story originaly broke.. words like.. "Cms from the crocs mouth" "Taunting a hungry Croc" were being used.. that combined with the distorted dept of field caused by the Telephoto lens created an imotional image that has stuck in many peoples minds... and that has angered me..

What is it in our society.. are we media - personality driven?.. we set these people up as icons / heros in our lives.. then when they do something that shows that they are human.. we piss on them.. yeh yeh some do deserve it.. but our media driven society feels it needs to crucify these people.... Just because we as the society had set them up as something other than they are..human..
I am annoyed at the coverage I am seeing.. In death Steve is being treated like a head of state, messiah, elvis all at once.. ..

What happened to people who ..when they hear something distressing about another..like a friend.. check out the facts before forming an opinion..

BTW Eg the analogy of David Suzuki just dosent wash as even close .. David Suzuki isnt a climber of any true note.. and the description lacked enough to make it emonionaly equivilent..
Now if you were talking about a renound mountain climber climbing a 1000ft cliff face, a feat that he has done numerous time before.. and his son was in a harness (this is a rope assisted climb).. .. it could be seen as the same thing right? how about wrong.. this guy happens to be a of a rare east indian sect.. and it is a right of passage for him as a father and introduction to the faith for the son.. all filmed and presented as some glorious cultural thing.. (discovery channel is a wonderful thing)..

Any how.. Steve is dead.. I thought he was an idiot along with all those who believe all that they see and hear on tv/radio/internet is the only complete truth..

[Egaladeist]

I was just taking two other equally sure and capable people and placing them in equally dangerous situations

Like I said before...the media probably pounced on this like hungry wolves looking for another MJ media ratings blockbuster...

and he probably was sure in himself that no harm would come to his kid...

but his very death and the way he died proves my point better than I ever could

Shit happens, and when you least expect it...if something had happened to him or his kid in that croc pen...not only would he have had to spend the rest of his life regretting ever been stupid enough to use his kid in a publicity stunt..he could have been looking at serious time with Bubba the friendly

I'm glad that when he decided to go swimming with Sting Rays he was smart enough to leave his kid at home

[J_K9]

Yes, the kid stunt was quite stupid - but, as Undies said, it was blown way out of proportion. And I definitely didn't hate him for it (don't bring the fact that I don't have kids into this discussion, so 'I don't know what it would be like').

On land, he had some of the fastest reactions I've ever seen - if not, he would never have survived all those 'encounters' with crocs, snakes, etc. However, out in the ocean, there's a whole other medium... He was just unlucky. The last reported human death from a sting ray was 10 years ago (or so they say - you know statistics... but it's still very rare)

[Shippwreck]

Yeah i can totally believe that 90% of the problem was actually caused by the media. They are a pack of bloody wolves!

It certainly didn't make me think any less of him, hell even the MJ thing didn't change my opinion of MJ (which is one of, i couldn't really give a crap ) I just assumed that he was far to excited at that exact moment in time...

[THE Doctor]

but his very death and the way he died proves my point better than I ever could

Not really eg.. When dealing with animals in the wild the rules are completly different.. as also with Wild animals in captivity.. and (inthe case of his Zoo) wild animals brought up from young in captivity, and domestic animals.. each is a different enviroment..

My point with Suzuki was that He would be completly irrisponsable.. HE IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL CLIMBER it is not a comparision..

And besides where was Bob and Bindii? Steve did not have the kids anywhere near him for this shoot.. they were over 2500km ayway in Tasmania..

Suzuki climing a tree a tree with a 2yo on his back is more than stupid..and I assume no safety harness, it is flat out criminal..
There is one issue not even discussed.. Steve does very little in the media (this includes his conduct at Aussi Zoo) with out the consent from 2 people, 1st his wife , and second is his media manager (the man who wittnessed his death). So perhaps the blame game had better be spread a little further..
Our point earlier of accidents happen.. ANY PARENT WHO TAKE THEIR CHILDEREN TO WORK WITH THEM IS PLACING THE CHILDEREN AT A GREATER RISK.. Steves work was His Croc's, even if he was a office worker.. showing them the ropes ot his job would place them at an equal risk..as accidents do happen..